Digging through NPR archives, I found a pair of interviews with one of my favorite songwriters, Tom Waits. The two tapes are spliced together; that’s why there’s only one link.
Here are some of the helpful points that I plucked out of the audio:
Cowriting a song helps you prevent an “Emperor’s New Clothes kind of situation.” A good cowriter will tell you when you’re about to leave the house without any pants on. Here’s how Waits describes his relationship with his wife and cowriter, Kathleen Brennan: “We sharpen each other like knives.”
“I like beautiful melodies telling you terrible things.” Waits does love to tell strange stories—a jarring example is “Eyeball Kid” from his album Mule Variations, which is about, well, a kid who’s born as an eyeball, nothing more.
About listening to old records: “I think I responded to the song forms themselves. Cakewalks, parlor songs… nothing more than Jell-O molds for music.” It does pay to listen to a variety of interesting songs from different genres and time periods; each different song form has something to teach.
Listen actively. Collect molds. Add your own Jell-O.
When you’re a teenager, music is like a collared shirt or a wristwatch. An accessory. Many people hold on to that mindset long beyond their teenage years. For them, music is like a fashion statement or membership in a tribe. It helps define them. As songwriters, we can benefit from listening as songwriters, not as members of some club, or as aural fashionistas (fashionistae?).
Certain details make Waits feel like he can enter the world of a song as he’s listening: He reveals during the interview that he’s always enjoyed hearing names of towns and other locations in songs; it makes him feel like he can inhabit the setting. “There’s the name of a street, there’s something to eat…”
Listening to a song can be like travel—even like time travel. Spin a Louis Armstrong record or some Duke Ellington and you’ll see what I mean.
“I like turning on two radios at once. I like hearing things wrong… I get a lot of ideas by mishearing things.” I sat up straight when I heard him say that. I’ve had a long pattern of mishearing a lyric and thinking “Wow, what a great line.” When somebody points out the correct lyric, I leap into the air, click my heels, and carve another notch in the post. I guess it’s not so much creative writing on my part as… creative listening.
Tom Waits suffers from stage fright. This caught my ear because I just wrote an article about a particular symptom of stage fright a few days ago. Waits says that it’s the thought of performing that bothers him, not the actual performance. “When I get out there, I’m alright.”
This is great for new performers to know: it’s scarier to think about performing than it is to perform. Get out there. Be heard.
About life: “You gotta have someplace you want to go so you know when you’ve arrived.” If you don’t have a specific goal, now’s a good time to set one. Everybody needs something to chase. 
You can hear the interviews in full by clicking here.
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Great post Tozier thanks. Downloading the show now. (speaking of which you might enjoy these two coverville shows.
I bought Swordfishtrombones last year. Bought it ‘blind’ (which people almost never do now) some things I loved, some I liked and everything intriuged me. I suspect he’s going to become a favourite as I check out more.
Any suggestions for further listening? Any good books on/by him?
Hey Matt! I feel the same way about Swordfishtrombones. I really like the strange lyrics to “Thirty Ought Six.” And I love “Trouble’s Braids” from that record.
I haven’t read any books on or about him, so I can’t say for sure what’s good…
For albums: I really, really like Alice, which he wrote for a play about Lewis Carrol and Alice Liddell.
Rain Dogs is even more interesting than Swordfishtrombones. Surreal lyrics, interesting ideas, unique arrangements (percussion includes a board smacked against a locker).
I think my favorite right now is Mule Variations,. I’ll say that much and stop gushing.
Man, great interview, synopsis and recommendations — thx!
Just listened to the podcast and LOVED it! thanks for the heads up.
My favourite quote was “they dug Louis Armstrong out of the ground like a potato” – but I don’t know how that will help me in my musical career! Made me crack while waiting for the bus tonight!
will put those Cds on my list
Ha, Armstrong! I love him, of course.
I like the description of the tiny music rehearsal room Waits used to rent, with all the different kinds of music leaking in from every side.